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	<title>Comments on: My Iron Lung</title>
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	<link>http://maban.co.uk/72</link>
	<description>Anna Debenham - Front End Developer</description>
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		<title>By: nobody wants to be a unicorn &#171; garann means business</title>
		<link>http://maban.co.uk/72#comment-4787</link>
		<dc:creator>nobody wants to be a unicorn &#171; garann means business</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 23:27:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maban.co.uk/?p=72#comment-4787</guid>
		<description>[...] Leave a&#160;Comment Tags: developer culture, feminism      I was reading a post about being a young, female developer earlier. The author&#8217;s talking about her concerns that because she&#8217;s a sort of unique [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Leave a&nbsp;Comment Tags: developer culture, feminism      I was reading a post about being a young, female developer earlier. The author&#8217;s talking about her concerns that because she&#8217;s a sort of unique [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Emily Heath</title>
		<link>http://maban.co.uk/72#comment-4771</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily Heath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 14:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maban.co.uk/?p=72#comment-4771</guid>
		<description>O.k. Some of the points you make here are valid and I can&#039;t speak to them from experience, as I came to this career considerably later than you (and incidentally, am often jealous of the advantage I see you having, getting into it so young) but there are a couple points I can repsond to where I see some positive thinking is required! 

Firstly, I disagree with this:
&lt;blockquote&gt;I doubt I’d be where I am today if were a man, or a little bit older[...]&lt;/blockquote&gt;
- you are where you are today because you are dedicated, determined and passionate about what you do. You have been asked to speak at a conference because you have made remarkable achievements at a young age and can be an inspiration to others (even those older than you, like myself :)). You &lt;em&gt;are&lt;/em&gt; different, and you should welcome the opportunity to demonstrate this and encourage others, especially young women.

Secondly, this is something I&#039;ve thought too:
&lt;blockquote&gt;I’m worried that I will only get asked to speak at conferences so that people don’t complain there aren’t any women speakers. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
- but all we really need to worry about in this situation is that we do justice to the opportunity we are given. Be honest. Do you think you are suitable for the job? Or do you know someone else who could do it better and could do with a boost, visibility wise? 

Take  opportunity as a challenge - if you do a good job of it, you will not only help yourself, but you will help the image of all young/women web designers. If you just don&#039;t have the confidence for public speaking, then politely decline, and let someone else have a go. 

I would be worried if I got a call to my office asking if there happen to be any women working here who might like to speak at a conference(!), but if I have put myself out there, writing opinions up on a blog and making good work and was invited personally to speak at an event due to my reputation, then I would be very pleased.  

So if there is anything to worry about at all, I don&#039;t think it should be about getting the opportunity, only that extra pressure you will feel because you are having to prove yourself more. And that sucks. Sucks two times cos you are female and young.  But hey, someone&#039;s got to do it right? That&#039;s what you get for being ahead of your game. Good luck to you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>O.k. Some of the points you make here are valid and I can&#8217;t speak to them from experience, as I came to this career considerably later than you (and incidentally, am often jealous of the advantage I see you having, getting into it so young) but there are a couple points I can repsond to where I see some positive thinking is required! </p>
<p>Firstly, I disagree with this:</p>
<blockquote><p>I doubt I’d be where I am today if were a man, or a little bit older[...]</p></blockquote>
<p>- you are where you are today because you are dedicated, determined and passionate about what you do. You have been asked to speak at a conference because you have made remarkable achievements at a young age and can be an inspiration to others (even those older than you, like myself :)). You <em>are</em> different, and you should welcome the opportunity to demonstrate this and encourage others, especially young women.</p>
<p>Secondly, this is something I&#8217;ve thought too:</p>
<blockquote><p>I’m worried that I will only get asked to speak at conferences so that people don’t complain there aren’t any women speakers. </p></blockquote>
<p>- but all we really need to worry about in this situation is that we do justice to the opportunity we are given. Be honest. Do you think you are suitable for the job? Or do you know someone else who could do it better and could do with a boost, visibility wise? </p>
<p>Take  opportunity as a challenge &#8211; if you do a good job of it, you will not only help yourself, but you will help the image of all young/women web designers. If you just don&#8217;t have the confidence for public speaking, then politely decline, and let someone else have a go. </p>
<p>I would be worried if I got a call to my office asking if there happen to be any women working here who might like to speak at a conference(!), but if I have put myself out there, writing opinions up on a blog and making good work and was invited personally to speak at an event due to my reputation, then I would be very pleased.  </p>
<p>So if there is anything to worry about at all, I don&#8217;t think it should be about getting the opportunity, only that extra pressure you will feel because you are having to prove yourself more. And that sucks. Sucks two times cos you are female and young.  But hey, someone&#8217;s got to do it right? That&#8217;s what you get for being ahead of your game. Good luck to you!</p>
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		<title>By: Anna Debenham</title>
		<link>http://maban.co.uk/72#comment-4760</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna Debenham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maban.co.uk/?p=72#comment-4760</guid>
		<description>Thanks Jon and Jamie, it&#039;s really interesting to see how others deal with what feels like a very strange situation.

It worries me how much youth is glorified; presenters on TV are getting younger, and although this is a very new industry, I think the older generation at the other end of the scale are being shunned.  There must be a community of web designers and developers aged 60+ who didn&#039;t grow up with the Internet, but despite this disadvantage are still doing great work in the industry.  I rarely see people over 50 giving speaking at conferences, and I wonder what the reaction would be if older people were selected to speak to make a more &#039;balanced&#039; offering in the same way that women often are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Jon and Jamie, it&#8217;s really interesting to see how others deal with what feels like a very strange situation.</p>
<p>It worries me how much youth is glorified; presenters on TV are getting younger, and although this is a very new industry, I think the older generation at the other end of the scale are being shunned.  There must be a community of web designers and developers aged 60+ who didn&#8217;t grow up with the Internet, but despite this disadvantage are still doing great work in the industry.  I rarely see people over 50 giving speaking at conferences, and I wonder what the reaction would be if older people were selected to speak to make a more &#8216;balanced&#8217; offering in the same way that women often are.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie Knight</title>
		<link>http://maban.co.uk/72#comment-4759</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie Knight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 07:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maban.co.uk/?p=72#comment-4759</guid>
		<description>hiya Anna,

I can totally see your points! I often have the same wonders regarding myself, age &amp; autism related stuff.

I often feel that i may loose out to contracts or jobs due to my age or peoples perception of my disability.  I don&#039;t think this is an emo thing to worry or feel frustrated about, i think it is in some ways a form of discrimination which is present every day.

However (much like yourself), in some ways i don&#039;t always see it as a negative, i have always tried to turn it to a positive. In many ways my &quot;brand&quot; is built on my personality and in some ways being distinctive and different has helped me to win work or be asked to get involved with projects which i may otherwise not have been involved in.

I think it is a difficult balance, while in some ways being distinctive is often great for getting some opportunities, it can also be the reason why someone will not work with you.

Hope that makes sense, good discussion point :)

^licks^

Jamie &amp; Lion</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hiya Anna,</p>
<p>I can totally see your points! I often have the same wonders regarding myself, age &amp; autism related stuff.</p>
<p>I often feel that i may loose out to contracts or jobs due to my age or peoples perception of my disability.  I don&#8217;t think this is an emo thing to worry or feel frustrated about, i think it is in some ways a form of discrimination which is present every day.</p>
<p>However (much like yourself), in some ways i don&#8217;t always see it as a negative, i have always tried to turn it to a positive. In many ways my &#8220;brand&#8221; is built on my personality and in some ways being distinctive and different has helped me to win work or be asked to get involved with projects which i may otherwise not have been involved in.</p>
<p>I think it is a difficult balance, while in some ways being distinctive is often great for getting some opportunities, it can also be the reason why someone will not work with you.</p>
<p>Hope that makes sense, good discussion point :)</p>
<p>^licks^</p>
<p>Jamie &amp; Lion</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://maban.co.uk/72#comment-4757</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maban.co.uk/?p=72#comment-4757</guid>
		<description>I totally get what you&#039;re saying about being &quot;too young&quot; and &quot;lack of experience&quot;. &quot;We went with someone with more experience&quot; has been the reason given to me for not getting all the jobs I have applied for recently. 

Obviously I can&#039;t relate &lt;i&gt;fully&lt;/i&gt; to your situation being a male and a couple years older than you but a similar issue I have come across is that clients/employers expect me to be a child prodigy - the next Zuckerburg or Mullenweg. That I should be able to do everything they want and have it done yesterday (but at the same time remunerate me minimally for my efforts). I imagine that this effect might be even worse for younger developers.

Those that I have worked with say that I&#039;m pretty good at what I do and when I have contacted potential employers for feedback on my CV/interview they always say that they were impressed by the work I had done and had no problems with my skills and abilities and just reiterate &quot;we went with someone with more experience&quot;.

Obviously I don&#039;t know the intimate details of the other candidates but often I got the impression that they weren&#039;t more skilled than I was- just older. 

I&#039;m not sure I can overcome this with any but time but I think you summarise it nicely in your post: &quot;No matter how good I am at what I do, there are some clients who don’t want to work with me because they think I’m too young&quot;.

I guess what I&#039;m saying is it seems that if your young and female you get a free pass and if you young and male people expect too much. It seems that getting work and acknowledgement for simply being really good at what you do isn&#039;t something that can happen till you have more &lt;i&gt;experience&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;I find it hard to socialise when I am at events because everyone there is usually a lot older than me...&quot; &quot;...when I am round friends my own age, I feel like we can’t relate to each other because we’re leading such different lives.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Hopefully the Tomorrow&#039;s Web conference will be a nice change to this. I don&#039;t think any of this is &quot;emo&quot; at all, I reckon there are lots of people experiencing similar things. There is lots of great work going on to educate new web developers - WaSP Education Task Force, Opera Web Standards Curriculum, your own work on ScrunchUp for examples - but what about the next step, finding work or starting on your own? Hopefully Tomorrow&#039;s Web will touch on some of the issues and I know you will be speaking about freelancing, but I wonder what your or anyone else&#039;s thoughts are in that area?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally get what you&#8217;re saying about being &#8220;too young&#8221; and &#8220;lack of experience&#8221;. &#8220;We went with someone with more experience&#8221; has been the reason given to me for not getting all the jobs I have applied for recently. </p>
<p>Obviously I can&#8217;t relate <i>fully</i> to your situation being a male and a couple years older than you but a similar issue I have come across is that clients/employers expect me to be a child prodigy &#8211; the next Zuckerburg or Mullenweg. That I should be able to do everything they want and have it done yesterday (but at the same time remunerate me minimally for my efforts). I imagine that this effect might be even worse for younger developers.</p>
<p>Those that I have worked with say that I&#8217;m pretty good at what I do and when I have contacted potential employers for feedback on my CV/interview they always say that they were impressed by the work I had done and had no problems with my skills and abilities and just reiterate &#8220;we went with someone with more experience&#8221;.</p>
<p>Obviously I don&#8217;t know the intimate details of the other candidates but often I got the impression that they weren&#8217;t more skilled than I was- just older. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I can overcome this with any but time but I think you summarise it nicely in your post: &#8220;No matter how good I am at what I do, there are some clients who don’t want to work with me because they think I’m too young&#8221;.</p>
<p>I guess what I&#8217;m saying is it seems that if your young and female you get a free pass and if you young and male people expect too much. It seems that getting work and acknowledgement for simply being really good at what you do isn&#8217;t something that can happen till you have more <i>experience</i></p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;I find it hard to socialise when I am at events because everyone there is usually a lot older than me&#8230;&#8221; &#8220;&#8230;when I am round friends my own age, I feel like we can’t relate to each other because we’re leading such different lives.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Hopefully the Tomorrow&#8217;s Web conference will be a nice change to this. I don&#8217;t think any of this is &#8220;emo&#8221; at all, I reckon there are lots of people experiencing similar things. There is lots of great work going on to educate new web developers &#8211; WaSP Education Task Force, Opera Web Standards Curriculum, your own work on ScrunchUp for examples &#8211; but what about the next step, finding work or starting on your own? Hopefully Tomorrow&#8217;s Web will touch on some of the issues and I know you will be speaking about freelancing, but I wonder what your or anyone else&#8217;s thoughts are in that area?</p>
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